Obviously not looking for hyperaccurate answers, just in general, how many people tend to unsubscribe from promotional emails and how many tick the option “I never signed up for this”?

  • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    I mean I’m emailing you twice a week at your work email address for 6 weeks about a product to help you with reducing costs on a certain business function, and making sure you see ads for my company when you would see ads for a different company, and someone pays me money to do it.

    I dont touch any personal emails, so I don’t really consider it immoral to email you about your job at your job.

    • Muun@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      But I’m not giving you explicit consent to spam me??? You’re gating content behind me giving up an e-mail address and then pretending like that’s consent. Or worse, going and buying my e-mail from someone else. This is the part I find immoral.

      And you’re being disingenuous here. You’re not “e-mailing me about my job”, you’re spamming lame brochures that I never explicitly consented to receiving. Whether you think that’s immoral or not, don’t attempt to rephrase it as if it’s some great service you’re doing me.

      Edit:

      I mean I’m emailing you twice a week at your work email address for 6 weeks about a product

      I don’t want you to e-mail me at all, but oh. my. god. one e-mail is enough. I don’t need 11 more! Wtf?

      • Haui@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 year ago

        Thanks. I find the gall of some people surprising. Thats why I always use „hide my email“ and some random names for things that I don’t intend on using like one time signups for whitepapers. These people are indoctrinated to put money over people. You wont change them but you can just act in bad faith as they do.

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        You are giving me explicit consent, though, as payment for downloading a whitepaper. Your options are to opt out at point of sign up, or at any point after that, or, of course, not download the paper

        Or if you’ve been prospected, I have to maintain a reason for emailing you in the CRM, and I’d invite you to consider the ramifications of “businesses can’t contact other businesses.” What if you need your windows cleaned? Or your fleet vehicles need to have their tires checked? Or you need a new warehouse to expand your business?

        You personally in your every day role may not want that, but businesses, in general, do.

        I am emailing you about your job if you are in charge of expensive ($10MM+) software applications and are interested in downsizing your compute and storage costs. Are you those things? If you are a CDAO of a billion dollar company, you probably would like to consider the product I work for.

        • Muun@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You are giving me explicit consent, though, as payment for downloading a whitepaper.

          You don’t understand the word “explicit” do you? Unless I check a box that says “please send me bullshit”, I am not explicitly giving you consent to send me bullshit. You’re also not giving me an option to pay for the whitepaper to avoid being sent bullshit.

          Or if you’ve been prospected, I have to maintain a reason for emailing you in the CRM, and I’d invite you to consider the ramifications of “businesses can’t contact other businesses.”

          The ramifications are that your shitty industry dies over night, and I’m okay with it.

          What if you need your windows cleaned? Or your fleet vehicles need to have their tires checked? Or you need a new warehouse to expand your business?

          Okay, now I’ve lost respect for you as a person. If I need any of that I’m going to ask my peers for references because I trust references way more than some jackass sending me the same e-mail 12 times over 6 weeks. If I can’t get references, them I’m going to use a search engine. Did you forget that exists?

          You personally in your every day role may not want that, but businesses, in general, do.

          But for all your bragging about being able to drill down and locate very specific individuals, none of you drill down and search by “this person in particular NEVER responds positively to spam”. So until you start doing that, I’m affected by your immoral practices and I get an opinion too, whether you like my opinion or not.

          I am emailing you about your job if you are in charge of expensive ($10MM+) software applications and are interested in downsizing your compute and storage costs. Are you those things? If you are a CDAO of a billion dollar company, you probably would like to consider the product I work for.

          We’re having a conversation about your industry in general. Not whatever goalpost you move the conversation to.

          It’s clear to me from this conversation that your industry is not able to morally justify themselves and instead of owning your shitty behavior you have convinced yourselves that you’re doing people a service. You are not good people. :(

          Also, I did notice you conveniently ignoring my comments on sending 12 freaking e-mails. I’d love to see you justify that nonsense.

          • Helix 🧬@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            You don’t need to lose respect for people who are brainwashed by capitalism. They don’t know better because it’s normalised for them all the time. If you berate them, it won’t make them change their ways or see that they’re doing harm.

            Mailing people out of the blue is probably a good way to get new customers. How else will people know? SEO is always tricky, advertisements are often blocked, calling a company or sending some mails might get better results. However, twelve mails is clearly overdoing it and there should be a functioning opt out button even out of those mails.

            I guess a better way would be to go to conferences of your target demographic, but that would require effort.

          • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            if I check a box that says…

            in this hypothetical, you did. It doesn’t specifically say the word “bullshit” but it does give you an opt-out, both on the sign up and the thank you page, and in the immediate bounce back confirmation and in every subsequent email.

            your shitty industry

            supply chain software? have you considered that everything you’ve purchased in the last 25 years at least was monitored by supply chain software?

            if I need that I’ll ask my peers

            you personally know the owner of several fleet maintenance companies? What if there’s a better fleet maintenance company that you don’t know that would be better for your company? I fail to see how “ask someone you know” works at the scale of billion dollar businesses.

            none of you drill down to “this person never responds positively to spam”

            I’m afraid your mistaken, that is one of the factors the aforementioned software can segment based on, plus we report on it too

            we’re having a conversation about the [marketing industry] in general

            then I’m afraid we’re talking cross-purposes. I am talking specifically about my process and experiences. You may personally hate all marketing, but I think a more realistic take is that taking products to market is an essential part of the economy

            you’re doing people a service

            im not saying I’m saving lives, I’m saying that in return for money the company I work for will reduce your compute spend on cloud processing. yes, that is literally a service. how else would you define it? Same as if you pay someone to mow your lawn, they are doing you a service in return for money.

            I’ll need to scroll back up to see your comments on the 12 emails I’ll edit it in.

            edit: i don’t see any comments specifically about 12 emails but you do say “spamming me.”

            This will probably anger you more, but if we’re talking specifics then that is compliant with what the law says is or is not “spam.” So, colloquially, it could be considered spam, but legally it is not.

            However, I would say all I’ve done is describe how the process works, (edit: for example you say I am bragging, I am not, if such clarification is needed, I am neutrally explaing the processes I am employed to undertake) I think you’ve gotten way angrier than is justified and blown it a bit out of proportion. I understand getting an advert for a new service is mildly annoying but I don’t think it’s worth getting angry enough to insult someone over.

            I would remind you that all I’m doing is a fairly boring office job, sending emails to other office jobs because they work specific jobs that my company specializes in helping.

            • Muun@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I thought it was clear we were talking about marketing in general since you announced yourself as a marketeer and made no mention of your personal industry. We should ditch the conversation. We’re not going to see eye-to-eye at all here.

              • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                there’s no way to briefly cover the breadth and depth of all go-to-market strategies though. B2B, B2C, N4P, and then by vertical, by segment, by persona, by horizontal, by business unit, country, technographics, firmographics, psychographics… there are as many different methods as there are companies, and in many cases several methods within a business unit within a company.

                I know it’s tempting to say “I hate all marketing,” but I’d ask you to consider that sometimes we do like it — when a new restaurant opens that looks good, when the new series of our favorite show comes out, when a new game or movie comes out, a new Warhammer collectable, Pokémon card, muscle car, the latest match of the sports team we support…

                There must be some profit-driven entertainment you enjoy and it’s unlikely you were motivated to enjoy it by knowing the creators personally.

    • Kazumara@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      I mean I’m emailing you twice a week at your work email address for 6 weeks about a product

      What the fuck that’s so often!

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        its really not, it sounds like a lot but compared to BoFu activities where a BDR will call you every couple of days, it’s on the low end.

    • plz1@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Your game is the reason I love that my company has an email filtering platfo9rm that tags “bulk” email and I just send all of it to trash with a rule. If your email is all fancy HTML and inline CSS to make it look flashy, not a chance I’m seeing it.