While this is just a theory for the most part it is kind of interesting to think about. What if the double empathy problem is really just people who socialize like Neanderthals
The thing is, from everything we’ve gathered from their grave rites and diets, Neanderthals weren’t any less evolved than cro-magnon, but they certainly were a hell of a lot less vicious and sadistic
Which is probably why they lost
And why sociopaths continue to attack us to this day. That angry ape cro-mag blood driving their tiny non-introspective minds into a killing frenzy
If anything, the world would probably be a hell of a lot more peaceful and less exploited if the cro-mags didn’t win
I always made fun of neanderthals, now appears I am neanderthal myself, what an irony. (I am joking)
Propaganda, used to foster the soft normalisation of Eugenics. Total bullshit.
Only if you assume neanderthals were less evolved, they weren’t. And we have concrete proof of neanderthal gene inclusion
How? There is no gene test for autism… yet.
It is an interesting idea, but I have a feeling that it is more complex than this. It always is. :)
We all contain ancient DNA, we all come from a set of people that evolved, saying people with ASD socialize like Neanderthals is problematic because phrasing it like that implies they haven’t evolved past their ancient roots.
Just because we’re detecting Neanderthal DNA at higher rates in people diagnosed with ASD, doesn’t mean they’re unevolved, autism is a different brain structure, a different way of viewing and experiencing the world.
The double empathy problem is just that both very different neurotypes, don’t understand each other’s unique way of feeling, seeing and experiencing the world, it’s essentially a communication issue.
That communication issue is relative to the fact that autism, while it has existed since the dawn of people, as this study is seeking to delve deeper into, is only relatively newly discovered, as a diagnosable existing neurotype. And if you add onto that the fact our current rates of diagnosis only serve Caucasian boys, that becomes even further problematic for recognition, and communication. Women, and people of colour are just starting to become included and aren’t adequately included. They are currently not in the dsm5.
For the double empathy problem to not exist, we would have to understand and respect both neurotypes and provide the space and needs both require. Currently we only do that for one neurotype. And as a society we aren’t even, yet, capable of adequately, expansively or comprehensively, diagnosing all individuals who have the asd neurotype. Essentially we as a society are only set up to provide for one neurotype.
Let me explain it like this, two types of imaginary people have to exist together, all of one type walk and breathe air, all of the other type, swim and breathe water, currently our society, in this thought experiment, is set up for the walkers, and the swimmers struggle to breathe or even get around in this environment. There shouldn’t be a world where those swimmers are told to suck it up, as is reflective of our current society. The swimmers shouldn’t be expected to evolve to breathe air and walk on land, equal space and provisions should be made for both. In an evolved society, that’s the direction we would go.
So implying their Neanderthal DNA is why they can’t socialise, is also problematic because saying they need to catch up to “us” and learn “our” ways. That’s the opposite direction for resolving the double empathy problem.
People with ASD can’t and shouldn’t be expected to exist in an environment that doesn’t provide for their basic needs. It’s hard to see how cruel and uninclusive that is, without including the lived experiences of people with ASD. I would argue, in all due respect, that if anything is unevolved, it’s that current societal expectation. Because that is what is currently being done to people with ASD. Specialists are engaged to, essentially, help them cope with conforming. But it’s not a changeable thing, it doesn’t stop their brain perceiving the world in the way it does, it just forces them to shove the pain down till they burn out and can’t function. But that could, arguably be blamed on capitalism.
So to end my point I say, the answer is eat the rich.
saying people with ASD socialize like Neanderthals is problematic because phrasing it like that implies they haven’t evolved past their ancient roots.
I honestly can’t tell if this is a troll, a meta-joke about people with autism taking things too literally, or an actually serious take.
Saying Neanderthal DNA could be a potential cause (not even a full cause, potentially just a partial cause) doesn’t have anything to do with being “unevolved”. It just means a slight difference in DNA. It means tiny changes in DNA might be causing tiny changes in social abilities. That doesn’t say they’re unevolved or bad or inferior in any way… just different.
This perspective handwaves the fact that “Neanderthal” is a commonly used pejorative term precisely for someone who is/acts “unevolved” or “primitive.” The article does a good job of not saying autists socialize like Neanderthals, and the commenter you’re replying to is wrong for suggesting the article did (I frankly wonder whether they actually read the article).
That said, the concern of linking autism to ‘Neanderthalic’ traits is, for the reason I just explained, a legitimate one, and the concern should not be simply dismissed as being unintentional. I mean, do what I suspect they did and just read the headline- It puts autism and the commonly pejorative term Neanderthal causally together in the same sentence. That’s what a majority of people are taking from this just judging from the ratio.
In other words, this association would be stigmatic for an already stigmatized group. Perhaps there’s some less stigmatizing language we could find to express this. OTOH, there’s the risk of the euphemism treadmill effect. OTOOH, there’s such a thing as reclaiming language from stigmatism, as I like to do very intentionally with the commonly pejorative term “autist.”
IDK, language is complicated.
Haters gonna hate I suppose
Next you will try to tell me that dinosaurs don’t exist because that’s a derogatory term.
Language is complex, as is intention. Such as: if you intend to take offense at a perceived slight, you will find one no matter what.
You want it to mean something, and therefore to you it does. That does not mean it was intended or perceived that way before you tried to make it so.
We can all assume people are out to get us, and take every opportunity to take offense to it, or we can get over ourselves and not project our own insecurities on the actions of everyone around us.
Am I the only one seeing this reply as dismissive? What’s up with this “is ur problem if you see it like that” boomer mentality. Empathy goes a long way. Especially when the other poster was so eloquent with their reply.
I think it is the evolution of the " it’s just a joke bro" mentality.
I think they didn’t refer to the article, but to the text OP added:
While this is just a theory for the most part it is kind of interesting to think about. What if the double empathy problem is really just people who socialize like Neanderthals
Which, in my opinion, is worded a bit unfortunately.
Thank you. I had the same thought but lacked the energy to put it properly into words.
Took me four or five starts to get my thoughts in order, and honestly it still doesn’t sound fully coherent. Oi
Well said, but I think you should shout next time so the people in the back can hear you.
I’m not implying anything. The Neanderthals were a group of intelligent apes just like us. You are reading into this way to much.
Your race and sex have nothing to do with whether you are autistic or have Neanderthal DNA. I my opinion sex, gender and race are cultural things. Autism in women and other groups looks different because of the way they were raised and cultural expectations. As it turns out we are all human in the end. Believe it or not we are all way more alike than different. I think as humans we put up barriers against others who we see as different even if the difference is mostly just in perception.
You seem to have taken my shower though personally for some reason. I’m not attacking Autistic people or any other groups. All I’m theorizing is that there could be a generic reason why we socialize differently. I find it really interesting personally.
Hmm I read another paper a while back that said that the frequency of autism related genes are less now than 10-15 thousand years ago.
Yes because they keep killing us and it hasn’t stopped
Honestly it probably comes and goes at random. When you look at larger timescales nothing is constant.
