• Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Authoritarianism is literally a defining feature of communism. Redefining terms to escape the reality of what ideologies look like when implemented is just dishonest.

    • Veraxus@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Communism literally - by Marx and Engel’s own definition - requires the “withering away of the state”. As the creators and originators of the very concept of “communism”, can you name one society that has met their criteria or achieved the goals laid out in their definition?

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Yes, I understand that Marx and Engels did not have realistic political ideals and that every attempt to implement their ideology has diverged from their utopian vision into authoritarianism when reality hits that ideology. That’s the point.

        • Graylitic@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Marx and Engels were anti-Utopians, unless you want to redefine the word.

        • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          Yes, I understand that Marx and Engels did not have realistic political ideals

          Have you read any of Marx? I’m not an ML but if you even glance at Capital you can tell that Marx’s whole schtick was using science to come up with realistic political ideals.

        • Veraxus@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I see you moved the goal post to a different field.

          If you want to criticize the specifics of Marx/Engels proposals, that is very different than - whether by ignorance or malice - outright lying about them.

            • Veraxus@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              I didn’t say anything about Marx or Engels. I talked about communism.

              Oh dear. 🤦🏽

                • Veraxus@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Ok, let me spell this out…

                  1. Marx and Engels created the concept of Communism. They carefully defined it.

                  2. No nation in the history of the world has come close to meeting the criteria/definition of Communism.

                  3. You cannot pick a Communist nation because not one has ever existed. Literally. By definition.

                  A dictator who lies about their dictatorship is still a dictator, just as a wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf.

                  • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

                    Since communism has proven to be impossible to implement and every attempt has resulted in brutal authoritarian regimes, we can either say communism is an incoherent mess of a utopian ideology which can’t exist, or an ideology that de facto endorses brutal authoritarianism. Dealer’s choice