I’m in Europe, and work for an American company. After a few issues in production, they tried to implement an on-call requirement for employees to check the alerts during their out of work hours (5am to 10pm or something stupid like that). I just reminded them that my country has the “Right to disconnect” law, which protects us from having to work outside our required hours.
They changed it to volunteer basis. I refuse to volunteer (because my off time is my time).
When I was younger, I also though I’d be cool to work in America, but once you learn a bit about their conditions, it’s a big nope.
Much better lifestyle in small cities with an average salary in EU and the 23 days vacation + 13 - 14 bank holidays. Mental health checks out. 😄
About the Prod on calls, even if you “volunteer”, depending on the country and kind of job, they have to paid those “on call” hours even if there’s no calls at the end, and if there’s work required, the pay is higher.
I’m like you, I wouldn’t exchange my free time no matter what. 🤘
Years ago now I was asked to be on call for a week, 24/7 outside working hours. I was told it would be paid. Being naive I thought I’d be paid at my normal rate.
Turns out the on call rate was based on the likelihood of being called and this project was deemed to be low, after tax I got less than £10 extra for the whole week. It was something like 14 pence an hour.
They had a whole load of restrictions on my life as well, couldn’t be more than an hour from the office, couldn’t be drunk, had to answer the phone within a minute at all times and be able to get on my laptop within 5 minutes.
Refused to do it again after that first week and they ended up having to pay a contractor £400/week instead.
Were you in the UK? if so they robbed you. They need to pay at least minimum wage in the UK even for on call. You are also allowed rest breaks. What they did was unbelievably criminal. Hell if that overtime included times where you were asleep and you were still on call they still need to pay you the National minimum wage for those hours as well.
Only part that wasn’t illegal is the extra restrictions, as you are still working so you can’t exactly treat it as a day off.
sounds like illegal indeed, you could’ve sue them to the work administration or whatever there is in the UK (I’ve worked there, but never had any issues on the working department… there’s so little unemployment that if you’re unhappy just go somewhere else 🤷♀️)
I also wanted to go to the US to work. When I was done studying, and had a degree. Moving to NYC to work was a life goal until I researched the working conditions. Fuck that.
Yep, Western Europe, Spain more precisely. 23 days holidays but at least in my sector it is counting that the working days are Monday - Friday (meaning that you don’t need to include Saturdays in the counting).
Then 13 - 14 bank holidays.
And then in my sector an extra 2 days for “personal matters”, like going to the doctor or bank or paperwork appointment.
I keep saying “in my sector” as I work in a normal office job, but teachers or other jobs may have more or differently distributed
A few years back, a company where a friend of mine worked was bought up by an american company. I do not know why they didn’t do their research beforehand, but the new american owners announced they would be expecting the newly bought company to adopt an american work culture. Almost everyone quit. My friend is a programmer. He got a new job offer almost before he was out of the door.
American work culture: “We can’t make you slaves since we actually have to pay you, but could you at least work every waking moment and accept being looked down on if you don’t?”
*laughs at american company* You know what’s good about software companies? They don’t need expensive inventory. Most of company are devs. If devs leave you are left only with name. And if you want to start one, you just hire devs.
It’s amazing that I work for a large European company in America and am forced to accept calls or come into the plant 24/7.
It’s almost like it has to come from a government to make corporations behave.
I have colleagues that have their out of offices set to “I’ll be available by cell or email” or somesuch. Mine doesn’t say anything, and I don’t check it unless I want to. My vacation time is MY time.
Either the government does it or you join a union. I am a member of a large construction trade union and it’s written into our contract that we cannot be denied time off and can’t be forced to be available during off hours or made to work overtime.
The catch is that if you want to advance in the company it really helps if you can make a little extra effort. You absolutely will never be penalized for sticking to the minimum requirements, but you also will never move up into management, which is perfectly fine with a lot of people.
I work in tech, in a datacenter, and godamn this whole industry needs to be unionized.
Between all the servers/etc serviced from the hot aisle (which is constantly more than 100F), no structured cabling anywhere, and a lack of sane standards that actually serve a purpose…
Yeah I should get a different job
Not defending them, but I assume it’s the American bosses implementing what they think is normal.
If a company wants to keep policy in other countries it has to make it very clear to each branch, otherwise they will forget or not care about the policy.
Yes. It totally has to come from the government. No way companies alone will do any good for their employees and respect their time.
Take the 6 or 8 can holder plastic thingy (that turtles and fishes always get tangled up). In the EU, it is forbidden to use them. So, companies like Coca cola don’t implement them. But in the US, there are no laws stating that, so they continue selling with that shit.
Without the government backing them, employees are just numbers in sheets for companies. Nothing more.
I know it should be obvious but had to read twice to realize there would be a “/s” at the end. Some employers or at least HR/PR teams honestly believe that every word you just mocked is the actual nature of employment, while those same managers pull all kinds of BS to pinch every penny they can and then leave before the ship sinks if the company doesn’t turn into a monopoly zombie like EA.
(For those wondering how Electronic Arts is a “monopoly zombie”, think about how long most companies that become like EA - when it comes to being greedy and stingy - actually last. A few years at best. Yet EA has 50 years under it’s belt? That happened because they have/had a monopoly on official sports leagues, Maxis-created gameplay styles, the Star Wars IP (until Disney bought it), and the Mass Effect IP that they ruined the 3rd and onwards games of.
In short, don’t feed the zombie. Don’t buy Sports video games until the collapse of that genre kills the Madden and FIFA EA franchises, and buy games like NewCity, Urbek City Builder, Elysian Eclipse, Alterlife, or Cities Skylines if you liked Sim City/The Sims/Spore.
As for Mass Effect, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see much hope for that franchise’s legacy. EA’s execs probably think “oh, we made a 33% profit off of those first two loss leaders” before anything else when you mention it in any way to them, which just feels like a punch in the gut to the tune of “your choices never really mattered” that are currently popular plot twists for games.)
This is just how it is in Canada too, at least in Ontario we have a recent “right to disconnect” law. Whenever I work with US tech companies and have to leave for a meeting they’re like “oh we can just continue this on the weekend or after hours” and I’m just like okay but I work 9-4 so I won’t be there.
It’s the same in the US if you’re unionized. My union operates in Canada too and from what I’ve been told our contracts are pretty similar, apart from pay scale varying by district council and currency.
I’m unionized in Canada as well as a power sector worker, although I work in IT. The contract negotiations are very compensation-focused not necessarily focused on enhancing what is already law.
I’m in Europe, and work for an American company. After a few issues in production, they tried to implement an on-call requirement for employees to check the alerts during their out of work hours (5am to 10pm or something stupid like that). I just reminded them that my country has the “Right to disconnect” law, which protects us from having to work outside our required hours.
They changed it to volunteer basis. I refuse to volunteer (because my off time is my time).
When I was younger, I also though I’d be cool to work in America, but once you learn a bit about their conditions, it’s a big nope. Much better lifestyle in small cities with an average salary in EU and the 23 days vacation + 13 - 14 bank holidays. Mental health checks out. 😄
About the Prod on calls, even if you “volunteer”, depending on the country and kind of job, they have to paid those “on call” hours even if there’s no calls at the end, and if there’s work required, the pay is higher.
I’m like you, I wouldn’t exchange my free time no matter what. 🤘
Years ago now I was asked to be on call for a week, 24/7 outside working hours. I was told it would be paid. Being naive I thought I’d be paid at my normal rate.
Turns out the on call rate was based on the likelihood of being called and this project was deemed to be low, after tax I got less than £10 extra for the whole week. It was something like 14 pence an hour.
They had a whole load of restrictions on my life as well, couldn’t be more than an hour from the office, couldn’t be drunk, had to answer the phone within a minute at all times and be able to get on my laptop within 5 minutes.
Refused to do it again after that first week and they ended up having to pay a contractor £400/week instead.
Were you in the UK? if so they robbed you. They need to pay at least minimum wage in the UK even for on call. You are also allowed rest breaks. What they did was unbelievably criminal. Hell if that overtime included times where you were asleep and you were still on call they still need to pay you the National minimum wage for those hours as well.
Only part that wasn’t illegal is the extra restrictions, as you are still working so you can’t exactly treat it as a day off.
sounds like illegal indeed, you could’ve sue them to the work administration or whatever there is in the UK (I’ve worked there, but never had any issues on the working department… there’s so little unemployment that if you’re unhappy just go somewhere else 🤷♀️)
I also wanted to go to the US to work. When I was done studying, and had a degree. Moving to NYC to work was a life goal until I researched the working conditions. Fuck that.
I’d say movies and tv series are the blame to the youth wish to live there… who hasn’t dreamed to be in the NY of “Friends” per example?
Then you start thinking that they had huge apartments and were almost never working and that doesn’t match with reality 🤣
Well, rent WAS cheaper back in the 90s, but NYC wasnt that cheap.
Western Europe? 28 vacation + 15 holidays(including NY) here.
Edit: typo
Yep, Western Europe, Spain more precisely. 23 days holidays but at least in my sector it is counting that the working days are Monday - Friday (meaning that you don’t need to include Saturdays in the counting).
Then 13 - 14 bank holidays. And then in my sector an extra 2 days for “personal matters”, like going to the doctor or bank or paperwork appointment.
I keep saying “in my sector” as I work in a normal office job, but teachers or other jobs may have more or differently distributed
Ah. 31 calendar day of vacation. Then you have more.
A few years back, a company where a friend of mine worked was bought up by an american company. I do not know why they didn’t do their research beforehand, but the new american owners announced they would be expecting the newly bought company to adopt an american work culture. Almost everyone quit. My friend is a programmer. He got a new job offer almost before he was out of the door.
American work culture: “We can’t make you slaves since we actually have to pay you, but could you at least work every waking moment and accept being looked down on if you don’t?”
That doesn’t fly here in Norway
*laughs at american company* You know what’s good about software companies? They don’t need expensive inventory. Most of company are devs. If devs leave you are left only with name. And if you want to start one, you just hire devs.
It’s amazing that I work for a large European company in America and am forced to accept calls or come into the plant 24/7.
It’s almost like it has to come from a government to make corporations behave.
I have colleagues that have their out of offices set to “I’ll be available by cell or email” or somesuch. Mine doesn’t say anything, and I don’t check it unless I want to. My vacation time is MY time.
Either the government does it or you join a union. I am a member of a large construction trade union and it’s written into our contract that we cannot be denied time off and can’t be forced to be available during off hours or made to work overtime.
The catch is that if you want to advance in the company it really helps if you can make a little extra effort. You absolutely will never be penalized for sticking to the minimum requirements, but you also will never move up into management, which is perfectly fine with a lot of people.
I work in tech, in a datacenter, and godamn this whole industry needs to be unionized. Between all the servers/etc serviced from the hot aisle (which is constantly more than 100F), no structured cabling anywhere, and a lack of sane standards that actually serve a purpose… Yeah I should get a different job
Or start union. Or join one.
Not defending them, but I assume it’s the American bosses implementing what they think is normal.
If a company wants to keep policy in other countries it has to make it very clear to each branch, otherwise they will forget or not care about the policy.
Yes. It totally has to come from the government. No way companies alone will do any good for their employees and respect their time.
Take the 6 or 8 can holder plastic thingy (that turtles and fishes always get tangled up). In the EU, it is forbidden to use them. So, companies like Coca cola don’t implement them. But in the US, there are no laws stating that, so they continue selling with that shit.
Without the government backing them, employees are just numbers in sheets for companies. Nothing more.
Was there any extra compensation offered for the added duty?
There is no need for extra compensation. Our employees love the sense of pride and accomplishment when they volunteer to be on call off hours.
the EA way
I know it should be obvious but had to read twice to realize there would be a “/s” at the end. Some employers or at least HR/PR teams honestly believe that every word you just mocked is the actual nature of employment, while those same managers pull all kinds of BS to pinch every penny they can and then leave before the ship sinks if the company doesn’t turn into a monopoly zombie like EA.
(For those wondering how Electronic Arts is a “monopoly zombie”, think about how long most companies that become like EA - when it comes to being greedy and stingy - actually last. A few years at best. Yet EA has 50 years under it’s belt? That happened because they have/had a monopoly on official sports leagues, Maxis-created gameplay styles, the Star Wars IP (until Disney bought it), and the Mass Effect IP that they ruined the 3rd and onwards games of.
In short, don’t feed the zombie. Don’t buy Sports video games until the collapse of that genre kills the Madden and FIFA EA franchises, and buy games like NewCity, Urbek City Builder, Elysian Eclipse, Alterlife, or Cities Skylines if you liked Sim City/The Sims/Spore.
As for Mass Effect, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see much hope for that franchise’s legacy. EA’s execs probably think “oh, we made a 33% profit off of those first two loss leaders” before anything else when you mention it in any way to them, which just feels like a punch in the gut to the tune of “your choices never really mattered” that are currently popular plot twists for games.)
Now lets talk about unpaid “internships.”
No, or at least not initially.
When I brought up the “Right to disconnect”, I also asked about overtime. They said it won’t be compensated, but they’ll think about it in the future.
Regardless, unless its really well compensated, I don’t plan on doing it. I’m not really pressed for money, so I value free time over money.
I think we all know the answer.
This is just how it is in Canada too, at least in Ontario we have a recent “right to disconnect” law. Whenever I work with US tech companies and have to leave for a meeting they’re like “oh we can just continue this on the weekend or after hours” and I’m just like okay but I work 9-4 so I won’t be there.
It’s the same in the US if you’re unionized. My union operates in Canada too and from what I’ve been told our contracts are pretty similar, apart from pay scale varying by district council and currency.
I’m unionized in Canada as well as a power sector worker, although I work in IT. The contract negotiations are very compensation-focused not necessarily focused on enhancing what is already law.
Le fameux droit à la déconnexion, je suis content qu’ils aient vite légiféré sur ça