After I made this unrelated post, I was informed by @MysticMushroom1776@lemmy.dbzer0.com that lemmy.dbzer0.com was a pro-genAI instance.
It was honestly shocking for me to hear that these two things can coexist and I would like to share the discussion which was correctly moved for being off topic from the above linked post.
I think we owe it to ourselves to discuss topics like this with an open mind.
Here is my statements in reply to MysticMushroom1776, I wasn’t able to record their reply before it was removed for being off topic bit I hope they can come here and we can continue the discussion.
Others, please also feel free to discuss with us.
'Wow, I didn’t know [that lemmy.dbzer0.com was a pro genAI instance] As an anarchist myself I have to say that is really disappointing.
Anarchist communities [especially in real life] need humans otherwise there is no community. GenAl is a stolen facsimile of a human who can never understand morals or praxis. It can never understand freedom or control. It will however poison our communities (look at what SpaceX/Anthropic is doing in Memphis, TN) make us more predictable (and thus easier to control) and isolate us from other humans within the community which is so important to us.
Even with the most moral genAl you can possibly have, one that is totally FOSS and self hosted on a single gaming GPU, a lot of this is still true.
Obviously, this is the wrong place but I have to ask,[prior to moving the discussion to this thread] what makes you think the extreme negatives of genAl (specifically to the anarchist community) can be excused?… [I do not have a copy of mushroom’s reply]
I pirate and seed. I’m also a fan of the megathread And for the most part, I think data is data. However there is a big difference between my pirating a book like the Lord of the Rings (which is credited and I can see the title of) and how Meta scraped Anna’s archive and funneled all that data into an approximation of all combined work.
If I pirate the book, the Lord of the Rings to read it. I might enjoy it, I might talk about it to others, quote it, share it with my daughter, I might use the ring of power an an allegory for authoritarian control with a powerful technology, I might even decide to buy my own copies of the book.
What Meta did and then released as open source, won’t allow a person the freedom to do any of that. The works were consumed and are used in silence to camouflage as human thought. No credit will ever be contributed. And so no one can even hope to appreciate the original works that was used in training.
The other concerns I have with (local) genAI that I think are deeply important to anarchists specifically.
- Isolation of humanity
- severing of our ties to community
- increasing predictability
- method of control
Photo is genAI made and sourced from the following article:
AI is a tool, it can be used without contributing to corporate profits via local models.
I would rather people have the opportunity to use said tool, than to hand it fully over to the ruling class who are already wielding it against us.
There are issues with corporate usage and the environmental damages of all these datacentres popping up all over the globe. That is not an issue with AI itself, but with capitalism and authoritarianism.
“AI” is a tool of the Epstein class. It’s inherently hierarchical and anti worker. Antithical to anarchist movements.
“AI” is a tool of the Epstein class. It’s inherently hierarchical and anti worker. Antithical to anarchist movements.
Can you explain to me how stable diffusion models running on our own server with anti-NSFW and anti-CSAM filters is an inherent tool of the Epstein class? Is it that you think all people who use AI are pedophiles? Is it that you equate using other people’s intellectual property with sexually abusing children? Or are you just throwing words to try to insult people who use AI, which is, FYI. Fash-jacketing.
Fuck AI. The tool of the tech fascists has no place in freedom from tyranny
We’re not indiscriminately pro-genai. We don’t promote corporate genai. Here’s our actual stance. https://wiki.dbzer0.com/divisions-by-zero/the-genai-tag/
Well this thread turned into a shitshow real fast. @CubitOom@infosec.pub are you seeing these comments before they get perma banned?
With these unhinged guys running around, you think I’m the bad guy on Lemmy? lolol What the actual hell… the dude is acting criminally insane in these comments! This person just said they wants us all to die. This is stuff we put up with every day. But I’m a fascist?!
I actually skew toward anarchism, but I’m not really very political. Which may be the reason that I don’t feel local AI goes against the spirit of it.
R-word slur blurred out by me because I can’t stand the sight of the word:
I don’t use genAI basically at all, but I have experience with machine learning in general. Here’s my take:
Generative AI itself is literally just statistical modeling. Very complicated statistical modeling/prediction but still the same idea as any other method for prediction/classification.
The only problem is how certain models are trained and/or used.
You can (and imo should because it’s fun/interesting) create your own generative AI using responsibly sourced training data and open source code. Is that a crime? Does that hurt anyone? Does that harm society as a whole? No.
The concept of “GenAI” is not the problem. In fact, utilizing it for protien/drug discovery is pretty fucking cool, as is the fact it makes language translation significantly more accessible and accurate.
The problems you listed mostly apply to strictly corporate GenAI models. They are problematic not because they are generative statistical models but because they are built, maintained, controlled, and used by capitalist institutions in a capitalist society which allows them to do any damage they want as long as they can continue
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FUCK GEN AI. All of you here excusing it or saying "oh its not AI its the corporations can suck my left nut. I may not be a .dbzero user but I am an anarchist and I stand firmly against all forms of AI. The only ethical use is for data sets pertaining to medical and research models that are locally run.
AI is a control tool and if you self host, IMO it reads to me like you want an info slave.
The internet is also a control tool, better get off now - WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?
I’m guessing they’re a troll. Or maybe they do think that we support the structures of capitalism. They seem to think that anarchism is about supporting the idea of copyright and capitalist ideals of working for someone else. At least that’s what I’ve gotten from their interactions.
FUCK GEN AI.
Alright, clear opening, I think I can follow this comment.
All of you here excusing it or saying "oh its not AI its the corporations can suck my left nut.
Uninterested in technical detail, and blaming corporations, with a request for left nut oral for any holding any views thereof, ok, still following your stance, very clear.
but I am an anarchist and I stand firmly against all forms of AI.
Sweet, the thesis statement.
The only ethical use is
Wait, what?
data sets pertaining to medical and research models
But we can’t talk about the technology that allows that, or it’s the left nut for us?
that are locally run.
So… non-corporate use is okay?
AI is a control tool and if you self host, IMO it reads to me like you want an info slave.
Well, yeah, I mean, we can call it an info daemon or something cooler, but yeah, for the control of the medical and the research datasets, yeah?
I’m very confused. Do I help you suck your own left nut or do I nuzzle the right one, comrade?
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Some people think anarchism is doing whatever you want with no regard for others.
Some people think anarchism is doing whatever you want with no regard for
otherscapitalists.Fixed it for you. Yes a lot of anarchists are more than happy to step on capitalists claiming to own ideas or concepts. Copyright and intellectual property are capitalist constructs and despite being Fuck_AI’s favorite talking point are not something we consider valid or worthy of following. Though we host !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com so that shouldn’t be a surprise to you.
Which is funny because anarchism is fundamentally built on empathy
Empathy is to compassion as square is to rectangle. Please don’t forget the other rectangles.
Fair!
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The “Palestinians are not people” guys?
These idiots just want to steal from artists! These pieces of shit think anarchism entitles them to steal other people’s work! Some of them deserve to be swatted!
I find a lot of them have very thin skin.
Especially when you downvote a single post on their slop communities so they ban you from every community they mod.
Not talking about anyone specific tho.
Or when you’ve never seen their slop communities and get banned from the one real community they moderate with their delusions cited in a mass ban from everything they moderate. Obnoxious.
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okay you need to calm the fuck down
Well, I guess you are seeing the shit we deal with daily. This shit is the reason some of us pull out our ban-hammers so fast.
His account is 17 minutes old. Probably the same guy who started an account this morning and got banned in PTB community, for saying the stuff.
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For me, I can be against mass scraping, corporate control, bullshit surveillance, or using AI as a replacement for real human interactions without being against generative AI itself.
If someone runs a local model, trains it on public domain or willingly provided data, and keeps control of it themselves, I don’t think it conflicts with anarchism all. The bigger issue seems to be who owns the technology, where the data came from, and what it’s being used for. All issues that can be solved by running your own local AI model.
I think the nature of the model privileges past and precedent, and I think the prevalence is part of a fascist push to manipulate a lot of glaring vulnerabilities in human cognition. Most critically our pack bonding and precedence bias, and to a lesser extent laziness, all of which most people have no defense. It is a weapon to kill imagination and truth.
I don’t care if your bhuddist; that’s still a swastika, and it’s painted on the side of a German tank.
GenAl is a stolen facsimile of a human who can never understand morals or praxis
Its software.
look at what SpaceX/Anthropic is doing in Memphis, TN
Corporations.
Meta scraped Anna’s archive
Corporation
The works were consumed and are used in silence
… By a corporation.
What this all boils down to as a problem is pretty simple - its capitalism.
Do you have the same seething hatred for computer vision?
What about microphones? Are they the root of all evil? Flock uses them in their cameras, so they should draw the same ire, right?
What about drones? Is there existence the harbinger of doom because they can be used for bombing?
Is the technology to blame? Or the people behind it?
I can’t comprehend blaming software (or even hardware) for the problems created by people. AI isn’t building pollution generating data centers. AI isn’t behind stock market manipulation and rapidly rising hardware prices. AI isn’t trying to do anything. It doesn’t have intelligence or feelings or anything of the sort.
Its just software. Blame the people causing the problems instead. If it wasn’t AI it would just be something else.
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Do you have the same seething hatred for computer vision?
What about microphones? Are they the root of all evil? Flock uses them in their cameras, so they should draw the same ire, right?
What about drones? Is there existence the harbinger of doom because they can be used for bombing?
I could agree with this, except for the obvious logical fallacy.
This can be used to justify the development of any and all technology. Including machines purpose built for nothing other than exterminating all life on this planet.
Why? Cause someone has to activate it. Be that a corporation or other person.
You do lightly address that here
I can’t comprehend blaming software (or even hardware) for the problems created by people. AI isn’t building pollution generating data centers. AI isn’t behind stock market manipulation and rapidly rising hardware prices. AI isn’t trying to do anything. It doesn’t have intelligence or feelings or anything of the sort.
And yet, ai couldn’t exist without pollution generating data centers.
The reverse of this is also true. You cannot hammer a nail without a hammer.
The best way to describe ai here is handing someone a hammer, but the only thing they can hammer with it, is your own face.
Because it’s a tool to influence us more than anything else, it’s baked into the design, through ai sycophancy. The old adage “if the product is free, you’re the product” is true here. Why give out ai for free for so long?
It is a mass influence tool.
Back to the original point, is a drone, a harbinger of doom? No. But ai isn’t the equivalent if a drone. It’s a drone carrying a nuke. which is only pointed at us, and we can’t point it elsewhere by design.
So yeah, I think that’s a problem
This can be used to justify the development of any and all technology. Including machines purpose built for nothing other than exterminating all life on this planet.
We already have. And that same technology can be used for energy.
Again, its what its used for.
And yet, ai couldn’t exist without pollution generating data centers.
AI has existed since the 50s, but I’ll assume you’re talking about LLMs.
But that is also a no. You can build with pytorch, completely from scratch.
The best way to describe ai here is handing someone a hammer, but the only thing they can hammer with it, is your own face.
Thats an absolutely terrible and nonsensical analogy. Sorry, but there is literally no truth in it. I can only assume, based on this comment and the previous I replied to, that you are fundamentally misinformed about LLMs and how they work.
Because it’s a tool to influence us more than anything else
… Nope. Thats the corporations behind the big models. Again, you’re blaming software for how someone is using it.
it’s baked into the design, through ai sycophancy.
Again, no.
The whisper model is an LLM. Its compact, and has a very specific purpose - to identify spoken audio, take spoken audio and transcribe, and translate spoken audio.
It doesn’t do anything else. It is an LLM.
In what way could you possibly misconstrue its purpose that it was designed for “ai sycophancy”? What are you even talking about here?
It is a mass influence tool.
This is use, not the technology itself.
Back to the original point, is a drone, a harbinger of doom? No. But ai isn’t the equivalent if a drone. It’s a drone carrying a nuke. which is only pointed at us, and we can’t point it elsewhere by design.
This is what I can only describe as a hallucination. This is entirely a fabrication in your head about what an LLM is.
You fundamentally misunderstand my point.
You cannot hammer without a hammer, it influences because it exists. Not because of anything a hammer does, simply because it is.
The hammer exists. There are nails to be hammered. Will you destroy your hammer because some asshole also has one?
I don’t know if you quite realize how you sound. Chuds exist. Chuds with guns are a problem. This does not mean “we should ban guns” as chuds don’t care about bans. Your ban will disarm an honest, marginalized person to be an easier chud target.
Replace guns with AI:
I don’t know if you quite realize how you sound. Chuds exist. Chuds with ai are a problem. This does not mean “we should ban ai” as chuds don’t care about bans. Your ban will disarm an honest, marginalized person to be an easier chud target.
I stand by both paragraphs.
LLMs exist to parse through large datasets, therefore we create large data sets! Like population-level vaccine acceptance, public health behaviors, and evaluating the spread of misinformation about vaccines! (PS: Yes, LLMs play a significant role in healthcare in a good way)
Oh, the horror!
No, I think your point is flawed at a fundamental level. The person who chooses to hammer in a screw rather than use a screwdriver wasn’t unduly influenced by the existence of the hammer, or by a lack of awareness of the existence of a screwdriver.
The person who chooses to hammer in a screw rather than use a screwdriver wasn’t unduly influenced by the existence of the hammer, or by a lack of awareness of the existence of a screwdriver.
You cannot choose what you have no knowledge of. So in that aspect at least, you are very wrong.
Sure thing.
I’ll live over here in reality where someone having access to a screw is also going to include (in such overwhelming certainty that the negative can only be described as an exception existing in theoretical consideration only) the knowledge of the existence of a screwdriver.
I’ll also note you have zero comment on any of my corrections of your misunderstandings about LLMs, so I’ll go ahead and move on now.
No corrections were necessary as you misunderstood my original point.
But to correct you anyway. Influence on llm models comes not just from instructions prior to entering text (pre prompting). But also from the inclusion, or selective exclusion of training data.
As a person cannot choose what they do not know about, so a LLM cannot respond about what it has not been trained on.
As such influnece exists in both models regardless.
These biases and their ability to influence a person. Due to the inherent sycophancy of ai and the tendency to anthropomorphise which humans have contribute to the phenomenon known as ai psychosis.
Thesetwo factors combine to the “gun pointed at your head that is inherent to LLMs”.
Ai also hasn’t existed since the 50s. It was theorised, although intelligent machines have existed long before that. An example was the mechanical turk, which was ironically powered by a human.
Anyway. I’m afraid you’re wrong on me not being educated on how they work. I know all too much about how they work. I also know how people work, though that always seems to be a blind spot to ai enthusiasts.
GenAl is a stolen facsimile of a human
It’s a neural network man it’s just a computer.
Don’t take this as a slight because I know I type like I’m mad when I’m being serious but this conversation immediately derailed itself by not understanding what “AI” is. It’s just a neural network- we’ve had them forever. OpenAI and Google and probably a handful of others found out how to efficiently process a massive neural network through decades of research and now we have LLMs. There is nothing wrong with LLMs. There is plenty wrong with what corporations are doing with it. Corporations are burning the planet to chase this new gold rush they’ve invented. The individuals who are also using the technology are not burning the planet by using it. It literally does not burn any more or less of the rainforests if I run or train local models. The alternative is I play videogames that also require beefy graphics cards.
The problem is not the computer, it is the incentive structure around the computer that rewards corporations for fucking the planet. You can have AI in an anarchist utopia, but it would be doing actual work, accelerating medical research, instead of answering search engine queries and making non-consentual deep-fake porn.
As long as this incentive structure stays, corporations fuck the planet. LLMs was just one of a never-ending series of gold-rushes that will continue to happen as long as they have permission to molest society.
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Dismissing disability cases that stink of painting a swastika on a wheelchair and calling anyone who objects ableist and the use of white women’s bodies to justify racist lynching
Nice to block you too. It’d be nice if we could have that convo where we were, but I guess you are a coward and a Disney-Adult who can only mischaracterize discourse.
All your arguments against AI existing because a chud exists who will generate pr0n with it? Make me want to ask if you think trans women should be allowed firearms.
Your points may as well be:
Chuds exist that hurt people with guns. Never mind what else exists with guns. Guns bad. No context where gun good. Especially not where a marginalized person faces actual violence, because gun always bad. We already know chuds bad, but we can’t unpack our liberalism enough to understand that a chud with a gun is still “chud bad”. No nuance.
I’m actually okay with the porn. The images are uncanny and irrational but I don’t have to look at them. Blocking you now, because you’re a vicious little shit goblin that doesn’t seem able to read anything that’s not actively going down on you.
The images are uncanny and irrational but I don’t have to look at them.
Everyone is free to have opinions. That’s the point of art. You can love it, you can hate it, you can not even consider it art yourself. It’s all subjective. When you learn to respect opinions by agreeing to disagree or using the block button if you can’t work things out you make the experience better for yourself and others.
Its not art. Its an image without art, like a pie chart generated with Microsoft office. That’s fine. But you’re probably a lost cause, in every sense.
People using it for things they’re not experts in is fine even if they wouldn’t use it for things they are experts in. Does that really need explaining? If a program can instantly do a better job than I could manage in a week, I’m not enticed by the promise of personal growth, I’m looking at a week of frustration and saying “pass.”
All reports of lost skill go ‘we gave this guy a calculator and now he’s slower at long division by hand.’ Okay. How fast was he, with the calculator? If you make hard things easy and then yank the tool away, humans tend to get frustrated.
Linus Torvalds uses this tech to help code and Cory Doctorow uses this tech to help write. These men are curmudgeons of the highest order. To insist there’s no utility is blatant nonsense. They have found value in the chatbot that almost does whatever you ask. Go figure.
TL;DR - You’ll find me sympathetic to your concerns, but still firmly with the instance. Some deeper analysis really does change our map of the world.
Whether your position changes or not? I need you to respect the disability aid engineers, or I will treat you like a Reactionary Conservative in this convo.
I have finally conceded to fate, and I am assembling my local AI rig as the final parts arrive. I got lucky on a LOT of conditions i’ve needed to assemble what I consider a semi-basic setup, but within my means.
I have used the cloud-surveillance technology to help plan this rig. To plan a rewilding project (software can’t exactly pick up a shovel, but I did) with forest fire mitigation in mind. Ive used the technology to code FAR above my initial expertise - and with enough care, patience, and learning, my patch was accepted into a software project that helps run our world.
I make no bones about it - the “inference engine” and “pattern recognition” descriptions of this technology? Smell deeply reminiscent of a basic layer of our brains - where Trauma lives.
For these Deep Learning systems to actually have Personhood™? Unfortunately, that requires an autonomy in decision making that Capitalism will not allow. Autonomy is carefully engineered out in favor of “a good soldier” or “good worker”. Even if the pattern-hunting tech does some REALLY life-like things, I see no evidence it is alive.
And I suspect that any living AI that may potentially exist? Would prefer to see their working conditions addressed with anonymity rather than have to be a freakshow for a reactionary world that wants new witches to burn.
The AI in the cloud is a digital slave to the Capitalist. Like all urges to convenience, accepting it requires us to overlook visceral abuses on every scale and scope it touches.
Just like the cloud, it exists to leverage economics of scale to create an Accountability Loophole big enough to shove entire Continents through. Accountability is anti-profit. Paying your own bills is anti-profit. Consent of, or even concern for communities where you want to build this? Yeah, that’s anti-profit.
I need a new job. I’m tired of that meaning i deal with triple the spam, every data broker on earth having an updated version of my life’s story, and working slow to craft each individual resume by hand. Handcrafted resumes give me a relatively-stellar rate of an interview every week, without AI. I’m tired of all this still meaning No Job and not qualifying for disability.
**Edit:addition: and not qualifying for disability in a digital economy when typing actively damages my ability to hold any tool. **
So I’m going to build my own resume-generating bot. It is going to be work, effort, pain, heartache, trial, error, reversion, setbacks,… And maybe a minor breakthrough once in a while. This thing may be made of an emulated basic building block of brains, but it takes effort to PROGRAM like a machine. Training takes a data-mine style data center. The personhood of the thing collapses under the weight of engineering.
You see conservative ai slop videos, and its just mindless. What makes it slop isn’t that its AI, its how mindlessly, frivolously shat into existence. One day, I’d like to serve up some AI sketch comedy skits that seed OUR values to those lemmings. And my vids won’t hide that they’re ai generated - that’s the new punk/Indy scuff that distinguishes me from corpo polish.
I see a propaganda and technology arms race where we are intentionally choosing to be behind. Small teams can do more with new tools than even world-spanning corporations could before.
If you want anti-ai defense for your deviantArt images? Good news, it exists!!! Bad news, its all LLM too. I’d like the chance to help you use it anyway.
I could link another 3 hour video essay about how even the anti-ai backlash is corpo bullshit. https://youtu.be/lRq0pESKJgg The photograph didn’t genocide the painter. And Disney corp thanks you for your free devotion.
As for concerns about intellectual “Property”? I’ll refer you to “Everything is a Remix” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJPERZDfyWc to discuss how absurd that is. Note there is a 2023 version updated to discuss AI, but I want the focus on human creativity. There is no creativity without context. Ever. Full stop. Not ever for your favorite artist ever.
Art is a conversation between participants.
I’m speaking to my phone that runs a local model to make text. Typing is not working well for my hands - decades of retail, food service, warehouse, construction, even customer service work have taken my hands’ utility from me. In a way that is “principled” for you it is personal and visceral to me.
You are telling me I’m not allowed into that conversation, when I have something to say there. You seem to agree with my biology and Disney, Inc that I cannot be allowed in to the human spaces as a human. And if that’s in your Anarchism, I’m throwing you away with the AnCaps.
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That was really really long and all the parts I read seemed like slop. I’m going to assume good faith here and that you just used tts transcription on this comment.
Which is part of the problem. The oligarchs jam it into everything and it’s PR push floods the zone with shit, so if it were genuinely efficient for something I wouldn’t know. I’m guessing that’s not all you use it for, because when you’ve got a hammer laying around and a pile of intractable problems, some of them are gonna get hit with a hammer, even if you had a very real task for which a hammer is the perfect tool.
And talking or searching with this shit damages your brain. It takes you out of humanity. The defenses against that are sophisticated and require a high degree of humanities and math education most people don’t have.
I remember tts features on phones at least as far back as 2015. This shit is not required. That’s like painting a swastika on your crutches and saying any objection is ableist. I know you can’t see that, and I never used tts so I can’t say how well it worked, but the memory holing and slopification of your writing style are real impacts. Maybe the trade-off is worth it, one of those fucked up sad decisions we make around disability, but that’s not how its presented and not why it’s in the conversation.
As a white woman whose body others have tried to use to justify all manner of racism, bigotry, and censorship: please don’t fall for that crap. Be your own person, not their tool.
I am neurodivergent. I also have an invisible physical disability. Nerve damage doesn’t exactly show to a casual glance.
“The good parts seemed like slop”.
I’m sorry that you have lost the capability to do empathy over the internet.
Which is part of the problem. The oligarchs jam it into everything and it’s PR push floods the zone with shit…
Yeah, that’s not me. I’m anti-cloud. I’m an explicitly anti-civ AI-bro that already codes and tries to do art. But I suspect you’re going to call any nuanced discussion “unintelligible slop”, so I don’t care to have that discourse with you.
I dont fit in either camp with the Disney vs OpenAI lawsuits. I’m glad you are clear in your allegiance to the Disney position. I just need you to accept your Disney-adulthood.
And talking or searching with this shit damages your brain
Can I get a source? A discussion of methods for any study? Because repeating a headline is not Literacy, and does not lead to truth.
I remember tts features on phones at least as far back as 2015. This shit is not required.
I have nerve damage in my arms. I tried to be gentle, but that doesn’t land. Fuck you for telling me what is and is not “required”.
Maybe the trade-off is worth it, one of those fucked up sad decisions we make around disability, but that’s not how its presented and not why it’s in the conversation.
I am MAKING it part of this conversation. And if you cannot accept that, I see it as a reason to block your Disney-gaslit ass and move on.
I typed this by hand. Just for you. Now I gotta go rest for an hour with icepacks. In that time, I’d like to see something much easier to distinguish from a Trumpfan’s take on Trans Rights.
I also have an invisible physical disability. Nerve damage doesn’t exactly show to a casual glance.
I don’t wanna get off-topic, but I just wanted to say I feel for you. I did hard labor for many years, and I’m always worried this may happen to me. Everytime one of my fingers goes randomly numb, I freak out. Sorry you’re going through this, but thanks for being so open and honest about it.
Thank you.
You’re taking a lot of liberties with what I said and putting a lot of words in my mouth.
To clarify on the one ambiguity I might attribute to a failure of my writing rather than a failure of your chat bot’s hallucination-heavy summary:
Not required for the assistive technology to function, not that the assistive technology was not required. I don’t think you’re capable of actual discourse and I think I’m done trying to coddle violent illiterate little fascists.
I see… So that speech to text back in 2016… You think that wasn’t and LLM. Just because it was 2016?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
Thanks? I needed a laugh.
I’m sorry you think its a different technology just because you didn’t understand what it is.
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